Spotify, the music streaming platform, announced a new feature this week called “Reserved,” which is meant to give music fans a better shot at nabbing tickets for their favorite artists’ shows. But while some big-name arena tours like Olivia Rodrigo’s and Harry Styles’ are selling out and generating huge demand, there’s a whole ecosystem of small, independent music venues fighting to keep their doors open. A report from the National Independent Venue Association last year found that 64% of stages were not profitable in 2024. Tobi Parks is the majority owner of a small venue in Des Moines, Iowa, called xBk, vice president of the National Independent Venue Foundation, and CEO of a live performance data platform called Tour Tech. She spoke with “Marketplace” host Kai Ryssdal about the state of the independent venue industry. The following is an edited transcript of their conversation. Kai Ryssdal: How are things business-wise at xBk Live?Tobi Parks: You know, we're very fortunate that we are doing quite well here in Des Moines, Iowa, but I can't say that that is necessarily the case for other independent venues across the country. It's been kind of a hard row post-pandemic for a number of reasons, but you know, we're doing okay, we're hanging in there.Ryssdal: When you say you're doing OK, I mean, are you sold out on a Friday or Saturday night?Parks: I wish we were every Friday or Saturday night, but you know, really, one of the big issues that we're facing is [that] we in the independent sector are really trying to remake the connection with music fans. A lot of times, due to the secondary ticket market and ticket scalpers, people have gotten used to feeling like they're going to battle to get a ticket to see their favorite artists, so I think a lot of times they're not really thinking, like, ‘Oh, I can spend 20 bucks and go to my local music venue’ in their own communities, in their own neighborhoods. Ryssdal: That’s so interesting, because it's not like, and this is—I'm not saying this pejoratively—I'm not saying it well at all, but, but it's not like your competition is like Taylor Swift, right? And those big stadium shows?Parks: It actually is. You would be surprised. When people are in a position where they're paying literally hundreds or thousands of dollars for this one big concert, they're not going and spending $20. They're saving every dime that they can to go to this big concert, so that really is a huge part of some of the things that we're battling is just trying to figure out where we fit in and people's entertainment budgets, if they have one.Ryssdal: Yeah, that's a good point. Talk to me, would you, about the sort of the macroeconomic environment? Right, inflation is up, and consumers are cranky, as they always are. Is that adding to your woes?Parks: Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, when people are paying exorbitant gas prices, I mean, that's hard, not only from the venue perspective, because there's less money in people's pockets, but I would say, from the artist's perspective, there's a lot of concern about artists being able to afford to actually be able to go on tour. So we're fighting a lot of things, on top of, as concert promoters and venue owners, you know, we make most of our money from concessions and people buying drinks at the bar. There's a significant downturn in people drinking — great for people being healthy, but it's really hard on the pocketbooks of small music venues.Ryssdal: We started with me thinking you were doing all right, and now it sounds not great, honestly.Parks: It's a battle every day, and you know people who do this work, you know, those of us in the independent sector, we don't do this because we think we're going to make tons of money. We do it because we love our communities and we love helping develop artists. I always like to say, ‘There's no Taylor Swift without stages like mine,’ and you know, I'm fortunate enough that xBk isn't my primary source of income, so I can't complain.Ryssdal: Well, let me take that side hustle turn you just gave me, and talk about this other thing you do. You're an intellectual property attorney, right?Parks: I am. I am an IP attorney and entertainment attorney, and I have also recently just started a new tech company. As we're talking about the economics of the live sector, you know, we as concert promoters and venue owners pay a lot of money into royalties to public performance societies, and so I've created some technology to help make it easier for artists to submit set list data, so they can participate in the royalty pools with their respective PROs. Ryssdal: So the people own the rights to the music, correct?Parks: Yeah, they represent songwriters and own the rights to the underlying compositions.Tobi Parks, majority owner of xBk, a live music venue in Des Moines, Iowa, and founder of a performance data company called Tour Tech. Rajaa Camp Bey/xBkRyssdal: Interesting. So, it's a side hustle, but it's very, very parallel, right?Parks: It's 100% parallel. And I think that, you know, from the perspective of artists, as we said, it's so expensive for artists to tour these days, and you know, we need, we need those bands to be on tour to keep our doors open, so you know we're doing everything in our sector to help them.Ryssdal: Let me back you up a little bit to some of the things that you're dealing with. You mentioned people not drinking as much anymore, which is great for society, maybe you know not as good for your profit margin. How else are you using this space? Because I imagine at 10 o'clock on a Tuesday morning, you got this space, you got to figure out how to use it.Parks: Yeah, I mean, we've gotten really creative, you know. We do a lot of kid shows. You know, we'll open up on a Saturday morning and have bands that cater to kids. Um, you know, we've really leaned in heavily to our [non-alcoholic] beverage service, so we have a much broader range, and we also do a lot of community service work — we work with a lot of local nonprofits to give them space. So instead of, you know, seeing your life concert, you might also be going to a yoga class.Ryssdal: You got to do what you got to do.Parks: Yeah, exactly.