Ron Rosenbaum’s latest book, Bob Dylan: Things Have Changed, is not a biography. It is instead a “kind of biography”—which is a distinction with a difference. It is, in keeping with Rosenbaum’s long record of fine-tuned literary analysis mixed with historical and, yes, biographical detail, a study of Dylan’s songwriting and a reckoning with his moral, philosophical, and religious imagery and fixations. “Dylan has remade American speech, American thought, American attitude,” Rosenbaum writes. Bob Dylan: Things Have Changed is an examination of how he remade those things, with a particular emphasis on “theodicy” and what Rosenbaum calls Dylan’s “argument with god.” Steering clear of the usual cloud of hagiography that hovers above most writing about Dylan, it’s a book that instead focuses on what makes him unique. During our conversation, which has been edited for length and clarity, Rosenbaum and I discussed Dylan’s lyrics, voice, and music; the moral and philosophical content of his songs; and our own fandom.

I wanted to start by talking about one of the most controversial—maybe the most controversial—things about Bob Dylan: his voice. It is one of the most derided and mocked singing voices of all time, but I was really heartened reading your book to find that you are also a fierce defender of Dylan’s singing.