For someone pushing his company to break new ground, Ilkka Paananen appears relaxed.
Not wearing shoes, like everyone else in the office - it's a Finnish thing I'm told - he tells me the mobile gaming industry needs shaking up.
"We need to take bigger risks," says Mr Paananen the chief executive of Finland's Supercell - a giant in the world of mobile games.
"We have to create new kinds of game experiences," he says.
The company already has some of the most successful mobile games ever released; last year Clash of Clans and Brawl Stars generated more than a billion dollars between them.
