It’s been a rough year for so-called direct-to-consumer brands, but building a direct relationship with customers is more important than ever before.

But it’s worth noting that these two companies represent a certain class of prominent venture-backed DTC startups. They certainly don’t represent all DTC brands, or even those modern consumer brands that have built a close relationship with consumers.

In turn, on Wednesday afternoon, Glossy and Modern Retail reporters and editors gathered with Glossy+ and Modern Retail+ subscribers to discuss the future of DTC. Some highlights from the discussion, along with the full video of the presentation, are below, exclusively for Glossy+ and Modern Retail+ subscribers.

DTC is a state of mind

Modern Retail Executive Editor Anna Hensel argued that companies can still be considered DTC brands — even if they do most of their sales through third-party retailers like Target and Walmart — if they have built a close relationship with their customers.